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The Big Power of Tiny Connections: Jen Nash

Episode Summary

ABOUT JEN NASH • As a Connector in Chief, Jen Nash helps people add more meaning to their lives through connection. She is a master facilitator, strategic advisor, keynote speaker, author, and sought-after executive coach, and corporate speaker. • With over twenty years working as a senior consultant for Fortune 100 Pharma, Health, Tech, and Finance giants, Jen Nash now regularly inspires and supports Fortune 500 leaders to deepen their connections in support of all the good things in life: happiness, growth, and sustained community. • Born in Canada and raised around the world in such countries as Hong Kong, Tokyo, and Australia, Jennifer confuses people by speaking French with a French accent and trying her hands at over 40 other languages. She studied Communication Design at Parsons & The New School for Social Research in New York City. • When not traveling the globe learning new ways to say ‘thank you' and finding bright souls with whom to foster lifelong friendships; Jen Nash can be seen biking around New York City, Los Angeles or striding around el Centro in San Miguel Allende, Mexico. The Big Power of Tiny Connections: How Small Interactions Spark Awesome Outcomes. Why this book is a must-read for people who want a bigger life … The people you know have the power to change your life and you have the power to change theirs. But what if meeting people isn’t your strong suit? Or you’ve become complacent about making new connections? Or you simply do not know how you can live the powerful, fulfilled life you envision for yourself? This life-changing book will underscore how powerfully connection supports your happiness, health, and well-being, while also sharing practical ways you can find and make connections on a daily basis. Almost anywhere. Using amazing true-life stories and scientific research on how we listen, talk, and crave connection, this book demonstrates that making time to connect is the most productive thing we can do to thrive at home or at work.

Episode Notes

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Episode Transcription

matt nappo  0:01  

What are you worth? We'll talk about it on this episode of the mind dog TV podcast. This episode is brought to you by truefire. Do you want to learn guitar or improve your playing? Are you stuck in a rut and unable to take your playing to the next level truefire Has your solution


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matt nappo  1:07  

Click the link in the description to find out more.


And welcome my head another episode of the mind dog TV Podcast. I'm Matt nappo. Thanks for coming. It's great to have you here. As always, a little bit of technical difficulties. It's been a couple of days since I've actually done the interview segments of the program episodes of the program. And I don't know I mean, I stopped doing it for one day, and I forget how things work around here. But it's my pleasure to have you here. I hope you're having a great day wherever you are. Just a brief note before we get started here. I've recently started doing a morning program, which is intended to be pretty much like a morning radio program would be for the drivetime hour with a little bit of a overnight flat as my Radio Days basically was an overnight guy but trying to merge the two concepts of morning radio personality and overnight calling type of show just made discussing the news of the day really and what's going on. Whether it's in the world of politics, entertainment, all that kind of stuff. For about two hours non stop talking open phone lines, I've had a few Colin's gonna be doing some more interviews, short segment interviews on that stuff. But it's mornings, starting at 9am, Eastern 9am to 11am. Eastern hope you can join me for some of those live streams. Those are not going into the podcast because it's just often two hours of me just rambling about stuff. Today we're going to talk about a lot of things but mostly about what you're worth getting what you're worth in life. My guest today, her her bio says she's been working for over 20 years, I find that hard to believe because she looks too young to be working 20 You probably started in elementary school, or professional career. Anyway, we're gonna meet her and talk about getting what you want and power of connection. And something that it kind of meshes with one of the mantras that I've been carrying around for about 1012 years now, actually longer than that is that people need to meet people. And I had this discussion with my stepson just yesterday, about how getting out in the world and meeting people. And you never know where those small connections are gonna lead and people will lead to new opportunities. So it's great to get out there and socialize, even if you're not a social person. So my guest is going to talk to us about that and other things. In just one moment. Let's see here. Jen Nash has over 20 years working as a senior consultant for Fortune pharma, unfortunate 100 former Health Tech and finance giants. Now, she regularly inspires and supports fortune 500 leaders to deepen their connections in support of all the good things in life, happiness, gross, and sustain community. She's got a book coming out in January called the big power of tiny connections, small interactions spark awesome outcomes. Ladies and gentlemen, please open your ears, open your minds and help me welcome in John Nash to the mind.tv podcast and welcome.


Jen Nash  4:52  

Hi, thank you for having me. Here.


matt nappo  4:55  

My pleasure to have you I wish I would have met you when I was a young man and that's not Come on, let's just I, this whole stuff you talk about the money instigated calm is your website, by the way, all that stuff. That's the stuff I need to learn. And I wish I would have learned when I was in my haymaking years, and I know you're going to tell me how bad that part is irrelevant. But there are so many people in my world, the creative world, creative book, authors, musicians, comedians, entertainers, who struggle with this idea of money and asking for what you're worth, and dealing with money, conversations and confidence in that area. So that's what we're going to talk about today. I'm guessing, but you just alluded to in our previous conversation before we went on the air here, that it's much more than that. So you want to give us what we can expect this where we might expect this conversation to go today.


Jen Nash  5:54  

Um, thank you so much. What a great intro. I really appreciate it. Yeah, so it's funny the pandemic, I feel like everybody wrote a book in the pandemic. And now that now we're all coming out and sharing what we've been thinking about. And for me personally, the pandemic was a realization of how important connection is in my life, grounded connection where you really get a sense of the other person, their vulnerabilities, you know, what they want. And I missed that so much, like we were all isolating, we were, you know, Zoom connecting, and all of a sudden, that little magical spark that you have when you're talking to somebody next to you at a Starbucks or your local coffee shop, or the diner, you know, or the gym like, it's all gone. And it's just like, work calls. And then I mean, I don't know about you, but I had zoom dance parties, which were awesome. That that was sort of a fun, fun, you know, offshoot, but it wasn't the same. And so, I I wrote, I wrote this this book about, because someone said, if you could tell the world, what made you special? What, what story would you tell, and my alter ego is Mary Poppins, like, if I could just give you what you needed in a moment, like, I need a snack, or I need a bandaid or I need a safety pin, like there are moments in our lives where I just want to be the person that's like, I've got that or you're like, I need a club at one in the morning, call me. I want to be the Mary Poppins sort of energetically in my friends lives. And so I thought about, like, if I had to distill that, what is that? And for me, it's how I approach strangers and how I approach the magic of connection in all aspects of my life. And so I wrote this book, the big power of tiny connections. And it's literally about how small interactions spark awesome outcomes. And by that, I mean, you're standing in line at the airport, you get chatting with somebody in the TSA line, because you weren't reading your cell phone. And next thing, you know, you realize you're going in the same direction. You're sitting in the waiting room together, like how do you know they don't have a job for your best friend? How do you know they're not the person your sister's gonna marry? Like, like, for me, it's sort of like, a Pandora's box of exploration. Yeah, yeah. And I bet you have some stories like this, like, how about you like is something small ever turned into like, next thing, you know, this happened? Oh,


matt nappo  8:39  

constantly. I mean, I every day in my life I got definitely resonates with me that idea that you never could have imagined where that one little conversation would lead to, or that chance meeting would lead to that stuff happens in my life all the time. But cultivating that and doing that with intention, you have to be a social person to begin with. I'm not I'm genuinely, I mean, I can have a conversation with you in this format. But if we were in a room together, just the two of us, I would be very, I shouldn't say if it was just the two of us, I probably more conversational than if it was three or four people, then I would kind of be the quiet one in the corner, just listening. I'm not generally a outward going social person where I'm looking to be making connections, because I think that takes some cultivation and a certain personality type, right? Oh, am I wrong?


Jen Nash  9:37  

Um, so there's a chapter on the excuses. We all make that. hold us back. Did


matt nappo  9:44  

I just do


Jen Nash  9:47  

I mean, I think I think it's pretty easy to just say, that's not for me. I'm not comfortable with that. But at the end of the day, you know, you're at a place in your life and your career where you feel good. You're grounded. You probably you probably have most of the things you want out of life. Am I wrong? Man?


matt nappo  10:05  

I think so. Um, you know, I complain a lot, but I shouldn't complain. Because I say this, it's it's an it's a funny thing, because I'm self aware enough to know that everything in my life, I have everything in my life I want or need. And when I hear myself complaining, I have the self awareness to say, I'm the last person in the world who should complain about any of these little silly things that I complain about? Because in some respects, I'm doing what I want to do. And I think, and I feel like there's some purpose to what I do. And I think that's the number one key to being happy is not doing something that feels like pointless just for money or whatever, you know, in a career sense. So that is fulfilled in my life, but there are still I'm a complainer. But yeah, so my answer to your question is, yeah, I think so. I think I got everything I want need.


Jen Nash  10:59  

Right. So so this, like, I wrote this book, to try and inspire people who want a bigger life. So do you want to make more money? Do you want a better job? Do you want to get invited to more parties? Do you want to be a better person? Do you want to get laid more? Like I just I literally wrote chapters titled like that. Wow, I think because I think at the end of the day, how you show up in the world really can navigate the world's response to you. So for you, yeah, it's, it's probably pretty hard for me to talk you into going out and doing something that's not not not awesome. But for the person who's, you know, 35 and wants more responsibility at work, wants more money, wants, you know, bigger projects, better things, wants to learn how to invest in real estate, maybe they want to learn how to invest in the stock market. Like if they don't have a mentor, or they don't have the right people in their life to support and guide them. How are they going to find them? They're not going to find them on the couch?


matt nappo  12:06  

No, I agree. I'm this is a conversation. My stepson is 33 years old, he's a vet. He, Eric, he suffers a little bit once. He has bouts with depression. And right now he's, he's, he's been a seasonal worker goes around the country and takes jobs. And then when the season is up, sometimes he comes home. And this is one of those times when he's he's home. And I had to talk with him last night and said, Listen, you got to do something with your life, you need to get inspired, 33 years old, and he started to tell me how he's too old to really make change. I think you got to be kidding me. For me, in my view, Life begins at 35 It doesn't end there. That's that's when that's, yeah, that's when I began to get real serious about what I wanted to do with my life and try to make those changes. So that part of it is important. And I I found that this for the same reasons that you wrote the book, I want to inspire people to live the life that they intend to, they want to live rather than the life they settle for. Because I think a lot of people do that. And so that's what my my goal and so when you ask what, what I would want, that I don't have in this world, and you know, talking about the chapters that you wrote, and I certainly don't want to get away.


Jen Nash  13:32  

But I get laid last Wow, Congrats, man.


matt nappo  13:38  

Well, you know, it's, uh, I never thought those words could possibly ever leave my mouth, but. But what I would want is more influence. You know, if I'm being honest with myself and honest with you, I would like a bigger platform to reach more people so that I could help spread this idea because I want my legacy to be somebody who left the world a better place than he arrived in. And so part of that quest is inspiring people not to waste their life and doing something that is unfulfilling, and we see so many people get caught up in that making a living, and they get caught up in this career that they took because it was a financial sound, financially sound career and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it wasn't necessarily connected to their passion, their spirit, who they were, what they want it to do with their life. So that's what I would want if I wanted. If I were going to ask you to help me figure out how I get more of anything, it would be more of influence. How would I would grow my, my platform? Is there something in the book for me in regards to that?


Jen Nash  14:46  

Absolutely. One of the excuses is, you know, everybody wants to meet me and I want to meet no one. I mean, does that resonate at all because you're a big dog? Yeah, you're you're my dog. But you know, so I'm, I'm an executive coach. So besides being an author, I'm an executive coach, and I spend most of my time with my clients, looking at how they can have this bigger life. Now a bigger life, maybe a more fulfilling relationship, it may be feeling more secure at work, because you're stressed all the time. And you just want to know that you're doing a good job. Or in your case, it may be, how do I take what I'm doing? And make it bigger? And we would sit down, and we would really look at who do you admire? What are they doing? What are the steps that you are not taking currently that you could be taking, and look at, you've got so much going for you, Matt, like you, you do a lot of stuff you have you're bringing on this morning show, you already have this you have a past career, you have radio followers, you want to get laid more, you have so much good stuff in your life, you're looking at reducing. I really hope someone cheers is you at some point this week about that. I'm very happy for you. Um, but I would I would ask you like, Okay, so these are the things that are working for you. Where are we missing? And then how do you think we get there, and we would actually create a plan. And that's super exciting. And I do that at corporations with leaders, I do that one on one with my one on one clients. And the book was meant to be a really fun read. Like I didn't write a textbook, like I have a chapter called How to get you know, tiny connections will get you laid. Clearly, this was meant to be fun. And I tell stories throughout the book, literally every chapter has a has a section called Let me tell you a story. Because who doesn't like a damn story? Who doesn't let a morning story, you know, like, and it's real life. What happened when someone trusted in the universe, you know, and so for you like, we would create a plan where you would probably be not so much standing in coffee shops hoping to meet the right person, because you're looking for very specific outcomes. But who are the people that you could connect with? Who would then be able to connect you forward? Who are the people that are already doing the stuff that you admire, so that you could emulate and follow and actually sitting down and holding a spotlight to that vision and those outcomes. That's the beauty of coaching, right? Because most people we budget, we budget for cars, we budget for the gym membership, we budget for our flat screen TV, we don't budget for vision and dreams and a big beautiful life. It's exactly what you were just saying that people just drop into a job and they stay because they got bills to pay. But what if they could have more? And I think that the foundation of having more is other people. Because I truly believe that the best thing in life is other people. And the worst thing in life is other people.


matt nappo  18:09  

Well, that's part of it. But no, as you're talking, I'm thinking about how all this relates to me because I'm very, I'm a very self centered person. Oh,


Jen Nash  18:20  

no, but I mean, we all are. We're all living in our universes. So tell me what you're thinking,


matt nappo  18:24  

Oh, well, I'm thinking about the excuses I make because the past to the greater platform I want has been spelled out for me by the people who have done it before me there are role models who have achieved what I want to achieve. And it's not a secret. I mean, it's not a secret formula. I know what needs to be done. I don't want to do it. Because it's to me, it's it doesn't seem it seems. And I think this is because I've been doing a lot of self analysis for the last couple of years life and global, all of us have been looking at, you know, what really motivates me. And I shy away from doing things at this point in my life that aren't, if it's not fun for me. And I mean, this completely downloaded, if it's not really fun for me, I don't want to do it, I don't care what it is, I get to like a child, you know, stomp my feet, plant my feet on the ground. And I'm not moving from this spot until you give me something fun to do. And so the path to that greater platform means putting myself in a box and doing the same thing and being consistent. In other words, being known in the broadcasting world for people who don't do interviews with authors if I wanted to be just authors to be in that niche and lock myself into that niche, but I my interests are too varied. For me to accept that that's what I want. I have to do to move forward and I can't pick which one I would pick. work because I love comedians. I love movies. Since I love entertainers, filmmakers, authors, scientists, historians, and I don't want to be put in that one box where, oh, he's always about comedians, or he's always about authors, you know. So that's part of I know, that's crucial to developing the platform I want. But it's not fun for me, and therefore,


Jen Nash  20:19  

I disagree. I disagree. I mean, when you think about the intellectual hubs, from the 15th and 16th century, which by the way, were often run by women, and they were called salons. They were always exploring different verticals, from philosophy, to art, to music, you know, to poetry, to politics, to love and scandal, right? It's the diversity of the human experience, which is sounds like Matt is what draws you Absolutely. Is, is fantastic. I mean, look at Oprah's career. She doesn't just talk about meditation and like deep breathing, she talks about food and hair and makeup and lifestyle, as well as how can we be better people? How can we lean in and her career started off wildly differently? You know what I mean? Like


matt nappo  21:12  

this? Person? Yeah. Yeah,


Jen Nash  21:15  

yeah, she worked for newsperson, though, but then she was like a shock TV, she was,


matt nappo  21:21  

you know, an early version of Jerry Springer type of Yeah, she


Jen Nash  21:27  

did that. And then one day, I think it was after like, nine or 10 years, she said, I'm not doing that anymore. And she had the clout to shift. So, you know, I would be delighted to offer you a complimentary coaching session, and we will sit down and take a look at this, because coaching is like a proven method to get results. And shift happens, like shift absolutely happens, because you get clarity around stuff that you hadn't necessarily looked at, you know, people say, oh, you know, my friends, they brainstorm with me, that's great. But your friends aren't just there for you. They're not holding a spotlight to exactly what you want. And it can't be because you're not, you know, paying them in that one dimensional relationship.


matt nappo  22:14  

You know, they can't, they often don't listen with a, you know, with an open mind, open heart, you know, your friends and your family and people who want to be supportive of you, they will listen from a perspective of, I just need answers from you, and what they what they would do in that situation, which is not always the best advices you know, they don't, they don't walk in your shoes, they don't know your business, they don't. And they're not listening with that kind of empathetic ear of understanding where you're coming from to to and where you want to go. So I agree, you bet your friends are not the place to get this kind of.


Jen Nash  22:56  

And I love the way you said that. Because when I start my sessions, I say I'm listening with an open heart. I'm listening from an innocent heart. And I'm really trying to receive you. Because believe it or not, I have had an incredibly varied career, like tremendously varied. I don't have any answers for Matt. Matt has many answers for Matt. And it's, it's interesting for me, because there is a huge No at all side in me where I want to tell you how to live your best life, I've got all your answers. But the thing that I've learned, particularly this year is I can tell you six days to Sunday, what you should do. And if it's not coming from you, you're not gonna do it because it doesn't feel like something that's gonna move you and I think


matt nappo  23:48  

I've lived it. I know that I know it for I know it into my core because and I've seen it and other people as well as, as myself, you know, just being on the sidelines of that kind of stuff. Even if you gave me the answer. If I don't, if it doesn't resonate with me, I'm not gonna pick action to support that. And it's gonna fail anyway.


Jen Nash  24:09  

Yeah, and you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't have believed that unless I'd seen it because I have absolutely given people the exact right answer. I know that sounds that sounds like I'm filled with hubris, but I have absolutely given them the one right answer. Like if I had an audience, the studio would vote yes, that's what he should do. And it didn't come from him. And I actually got to watch the outcome multiple times. And you know what, it made me a better coach made me a better person, because it gives me the ability to stand back and know that your answer is the best version for you. Right hold space for that in a very grounded kind of way. And I think I think your your idea about excuses, is valid. Everyone has an excuse for not doing stuff that's not fun. That's not comfortable. But part of the book that I wanted to put out there was. Here's it. Here's a really fun scientific thing that I that I that I discovered while writing the book. Most people think a conversation with a stranger is going to be awful 90% of people after they've had a conversation with a stranger, thought it went great. Loved it want to do it again? Oh, yeah. And if you ask them again, like a week later, they think it's gonna be awful. And the main fears are, I won't know what to say. They'll be bored with me, I'll be bored with them, they won't know what to say. And, you know, it's like, it's like the human insecurity, right? And


matt nappo  25:45  

I am naturally in the real world, that person in this world, I'm a totally different person. And before I get to that, I just want to say across the bottom, I have Jen nash.com. Going across, but I put in a different URL, one that you had sent me, I guess it redirects, does it matter if I have this one, this one's perfect, because it takes you to the same place. As you mentioned, everybody wrote a book during the pandemic, and I've been working on one and coincidentally enough, it's been it's called talking to strangers. And it's about can't


Jen Nash  26:19  

use that name. You want to know why, why? I wanted that book name, too, because Malcolm Gladwell, his book last year is talking to strangers.


matt nappo  26:29  

Ah, but does he do it as often as I do, because I do it three times a day, every day of the week. People have commented to me, I mean, this goes back to my radio days, I had a girl who was a couple who lived in the house with me rented the apartment upstairs for me. And they would call into my radio show, though, the wife of the couple would call into my radio show with a weekly recipe of the week. And she said, she remarked to everybody, I can talk to Matt on the radio, I can't talk to him in person, he's just like not, I can't have a conversation with him on the radio, he's a different person. And my wife is commented back to me about this, she said, you know, you're, you're a different person doing that you can talk freely, you're confident, you can talk to a complete stranger, and feel really comfortable talking to them. In real life. That's not you. And it's so weird that that switch can happen. But to your point about, I think part of the ability to have that. That conversation in a confident way where you feel like it's a natural flow is natural equivalent, genuine inquisitiveness and genuine interest in the person you're talking to. And the subject that you're they're talking to you about. That's what drives me. So, you know, you don't think I don't think in those terms when it's a social thing in a living room. But when I'm talking to you now I can say, Here's somebody I should really be interested in. She has knowledge and expertise that could benefit me and benefit my audience. So you know, I'm going to be more listening more in tuned and more interested in what you have to say. And I think that's part that's the answer to anybody who, who has shrunk, have struggled with those conversations talking to strangers is you have to go into it with a genuine openness and wanting to learn from that person and really being interested in them.


Jen Nash  28:26  

Yeah, I think that's incredibly well said. And I actually have a section called Get curious. Because at the end of the day, I hear you, it is hard, and there is a little voice in our head that says, I don't need to know any more people. I'm good. I've got my friends. I've got my family. Why? Why do I need to talk to a person in a coffee line? Um, this is this story isn't in the book. But like, for instance, I was flying from LA to San Francisco this summer. And I went, our flight was just delayed, delayed delayed. So I go get some coffee. And this guy gets up and follows me up to get coffee. And after we're standing there adjusting our coffees, he starts chatting me up. Like super, super flirty, actually. I was very surprised. I was like, Oh, wow, okay, I'm wearing a mask. It seems odd. We're awkward to be flirted with while you're wearing a mask. But I was super appreciative because I was like, when's the last time I was born? And when you know, like, Yay, I was genuinely excited. Um, next thing you know. Like I could have just been dismissive and like, Why do I want to like chat with this stranger? Some dude in an airport. Next thing, you know, our flights canceled. I'm sitting downstairs in luggage, hoping that they will return my bags. They thought about it for about an hour and a half. I was like, why are you not giving us back our luggage and who's sitting next to To me, this guy, his name was Peter. And it turned out he was a singer songwriter. And he whips open his guitar case, and proceeds to start singing to me because he mentioned that he was a singer songwriter, and he writes his own music. And I said, Great, let's hear one. I thought he'd say nap. Nope. He sits there and plays me a song and sings to me. And he's one of those people who has a normal speaking voice. But when he speaks, what he sings, he's, he's an angel. So I was just like, Okay, today just got really good, because I talked to some random stranger, getting coffee. And you know, what, it may not have changed my life may not get me anything. I mean, it definitely could have gotten me laid, but it didn't for the for the record. But, um, you know, choices. But, you know, Peter, Peter really made my day special, because it could have been, you know, kind of a really big bummer. Like, I, I missed having dinner with my friends in San Francisco, my flight was seven hours delayed, it was more money, like, I could have been really annoyed. But instead, I was like, this is kind of awesome. So the thing is, to your point, that curiosity, I think you have to lean into the idea that I personally think every person is a gift. But I don't know what it is. And I have to ask the right questions.


matt nappo  31:19  

Wow, that's a that's an interesting thing. Because I can I can relate to the idea of it. But being playing in a band myself for for so many years, and being approachable after his shows, I can tell you that. That feeling is not 24/7. So I in this conversation, I could say, Yeah, everybody's a gift. But at two in the morning when the show's over, and people want to come up to me and talk to me, total strangers, and oftentimes, they're a little bit of a braided everybody. Everybody's not a gift. And I'm like,


Jen Nash  31:56  

Yeah, that's that's fair. I think I think you have to look at context. And everybody needs boundaries, there are there are people and situations where Absolutely, you should just go to bed, like you you've done your thing, you your craft, that was your night, you gave your show. And tomorrow's a new day. Right? I think it's more about, again, like, what do you want out of life? And how are you showing up in your life to get that shift? You know, because I think that the power lies in the people around us and the people that they know, you know, had I known in college that every single person in my school class could have hired me for the next 20 years, I think I would have behaved differently. Like I wasn't a dick or anything. But I think I would have fostered those relationships in a much more careful way. It never occurred to me that every single person in there was a network connection, who could hire me, and literally changed my life,


matt nappo  32:52  

even even if they couldn't hire, they might know somebody else who can and that part of which is kind of what I was trying to relate to Eric yesterday and just failing at getting through to him is that you get out of the house, you meet people, that might not be the person that might not be the end person in the chain that's going to change your life, but they could lead to other people who might be the person in that chain who's gonna change your life. I fail at getting through with that message. So it's frustrating. I'm not giving up but Is he


Jen Nash  33:28  

is he like a serious introvert.


matt nappo  33:33  

At times, I you know, again, he's had he's had bouts with depression, a lot of it has is related to his time in the service. But he comes and goes, so he, I don't want to use the word manic like, or bipolar, because that's not what he is. But there are times in his life when he's outwardly going and social and not so introverted. And the period that he's going through now where he's extremely introverted, not really coming out of his world. I mean, he came here two months ago, for a couple of days to figure out what his next step was going to be. And got into the room. And that's it. He doesn't come out.


Jen Nash  34:09  

Yeah, I think I think there's a lot of layers, especially with PTSD, and, you know, people coming back from the service. And there's the good news, Matt is there are so many new resources and I mean, everything from psychedelics. You know, both firms and cannabinoids and cannabinoids are now legal, more and more, right. And then there's a slew of research into ketamine therapy, and there's so many other therapies that the FDA is strongly considering. So especially for people who are struggling because of past experiences, like connection is not easy. You know, I mean, that's like that's, that's next level and I totally understand how hard it is also for for you watching someone you care about, who's withdrawing, right, you know, and part


matt nappo  35:05  

of it, you know what, what part of the struggle is that first step? Because, yeah, I understand. And, you know, I tried to, because I do volunteer work at the VA all the time a Gu show volunteer shows there. And I said I would take him there. But that that first step is the most important step and just, you can't drag somebody to that first step, you can't make them want to take that first step, they have to do it for themselves. So when you get into that depression stuff, but I don't I don't want to linger on that. But


Jen Nash  35:35  

no, but I agree. And it's interesting, because one of the sections I have is like, it's frickin awkward to go to things alone. But I do it all the time. And people are like, Oh, well, it's easy for you. It's not easy for me, I still walk in and I'm like, I exhale, I don't feel good. I think maybe I should have a quick shot of vodka. Don't do that, because that doesn't work out well. But um, you know, what I have found and I put all of this in the book, I have found that when you are authentically yourself and vulnerable, and you share that the defenses that other people might have had just dropped to the floor. So I'll walk up to a group of people and I'll say, Hi, I'm done. I came alone, which, right? The second is feeling super awkward. Can I join in? And you know what? Why would they say no? Like they're not most people are not unkind. What if


matt nappo  36:30  

they did? This is what I'm doing. I know. But if they did, this is the thought that will keep people from doing it. If they did, how heartbreaking? How crushed soul crushing? Would that be a no get out of here? Do we


Jen Nash  36:43  

know and, you know, I tell I tell stories about how I got my first internship, I just did buy a cheese plate. And anyone who came up to the cheese plate, I talked about the cheese. I didn't know what else to say I was you know, 20. And you know, like, I love Gouda. Do you love Gouda, like, it doesn't really matter, because the other person is just Oh, the ice was just broken. And in a perfectly natural way. I didn't say anything strange. I talked about the cheese. You know, and, you know, I think when you when you rock into a conference at conferences are easy, because hypothetically, everybody's there to mingle. Right? So you go to a buffet, you know, you turn to the person next to you and you say, have you tried anything? Was anything good? Wasn't a hard line to come up with? You're staring at food, right? You know, or did you hear anything good in this morning sessions, you know, who resonated with you. And then I have a really powerful section on altruistic networking, which I think if I could, like if people in business could adopt us, the world would be a different place. And the idea is, when you meet someone at a conference or a party, anywhere, really, and you're there looking for something, you tell them what you're looking for. And then you ask them, What are they looking for? And in a perfect world, they give you some kind of a business card. Right? You you take a note, you say Jerry is looking for an Instagram influence influence in Instagram influencer, you know, and you say, great, and you take a note because you look at Jerry and you realize Jerry's wearing a pink shirt, okay? might not remember his name 15 minutes later, but you know that he's wearing a pink shirt because you wrote it down. And you go out the room. And you've told Jerry, by the way that you're looking for a new salesperson, right? I need a salesperson that's got this kind of background, and that is familiar with these kinds of technology. And he's like, great. Sure. So he goes around the room, and he says, well, gents, wearing a pink shirt, too. And as the evening progresses, don't be surprised if somebody comes and finds you and says, Hey, I think you're looking for me. Oh, are you a salesperson? Yeah, I am. Wow, are you like SAS familiar? Yep, I am. Like, wow. And who knows? Like an hour later, you might meet somebody who's hugely popular on Instagram. And you literally just pick up the phone you call Jerry. He's like way across the room. You say, Hey, this is who I have here. Do you want to come chat? Yeah, I do. You've literally just changed someone's evening for the better. Now imagine if you do that five or six times. Now you have six people at an event all looking for your your, your your need. How powerful would that be?


matt nappo  39:27  

It's extremely powerful. And it's great advice. The only hiccup I can see it. I mean, I don't even think it's just great advice for business. I think it's great advice for how to interact with anybody in any circumstance in your life, and particularly in affairs of the heart. But the hiccup I see is it requires a bit of honesty and for some reason, even in business it's difficult for people to express what they truly are, therefore what they really want to get out of it. For some reason, I don't know whether we feel embarrassed or shy about what we're what we're really looking to get out of it. But for some reason, we kind of hide an underlay as shit a lot.


Jen Nash  40:18  

That's interesting, because I personally have not had that experience. Because normally, like, I've been to conferences for real estate conferences for marketing conferences for screenplay, writing and TV show launches. And most of the people are hustling. So, you know, they'll tell you, yeah, I'm looking to pitch my show. Or I'm looking for a PR person, that'll make me famous. Like, because at the end of the day, you just spent a fair amount of money to attend a conference. Why? And you're right, there are some people who really are just there to like, listen and learn. Because they they were tired of sitting in their basement, hashtag COVID?


matt nappo  40:58  

Well, you know, when I say, yeah, when I say that honest, I think honestly begins with yourself, and especially in the creative world that I live in. A lot of, that's it, that's a difficult thing. And part of what we call finding your voice as an artist and, or as a writer, or whatever you whatever you're doing, finding your voice in it, that requires being able to be honest with yourself. And I think that's where a lot of the hiccups come in. So it like if I was it South by Southwest, you know, people would be covering up within their own mind about the real reason they're there, whether it's, I'm looking to really make get a record deal down here. That's really what's in the baton in mind, but they're gonna say, I'm just looking to network with with people and find people, you know, that I can collaborate with, and that kind of stuff. And that's what's coming out of their mouth. But that's not what's back here in the back of their mind. There's a lot of that that goes on.


Jen Nash  41:52  

And yeah, I can, I can see that. And I think you're right, I think it does come down to being vulnerable. And I think at the end of the day, like, I personally used to try and go for like, meeting a lot of people, but it didn't feel good to me. So I sort of made my goals smaller. And if I think if you have like a real 10 to 15 minute conversation with someone at an event, and you go from nothing to 15 minutes later, and you get a real sense of who they are, and they get a sense of who you are, you might actually want to tell them, you're looking for a record deal. And you're gonna like, open up.


matt nappo  42:29  

Yeah, yeah, honest with yourself and recognize that that's really what you want. And be honest with yourself to even articulate it to yourself is sometimes in this is what I'm really here for, you know, and the first person you're going to bullshit is always yourself. That's my opinion on it.


Jen Nash  42:48  

I think that's sort of true. But it depends. Like, imagine if you and I sat down and we made a plan. And you outlined the steps you were going to take and who you were going to talk to and what you were going to ask for, you're really going to show up for yourself, because you're not at that conference, just to have a good time, you're actually at that conference to make your dreams come true. No, no. And if you're an if you're spending time and money, you know, on a coach, you don't want to have that session two weeks later and say, Yeah, I just had some beers and met some nice people. Like you want to come back and say, Actually, I made three really powerful connections, and we're having talks tomorrow, you know, because you're feeling supported. And you know, that you want a bigger life, and you like you're looking at leaving a great legacy right now. And I think that's such a powerful, deep seated, you know, goal. You know, that's, I mean, I think at the end of the day, who doesn't want to change lives?


matt nappo  43:48  

Yeah, no, I agree. I Well, there are a lot of people who aren't even considering their legacy. And I think that those are the most miserable people walking around and like not thinking about what why was I even born what what does my life mean? Does it do I have any meaning or I'm just here for 80 years or so and then just gonna be put in the ground or burned up and that kind of stuff. So the idea now of you seem to be willing to take that first approach step to approach somebody and and initiate that connection. But there is an art to being approachable yourself in that connection. I think. You transcended what and I don't mean to embarrass you, but I find you to be a very, extremely attractive woman. And I think that can be a detriment in approachability because a lot of people will be intimidated by that. I know people are intimidated by me and want to preach approach me because I look scary ways. Maybe not in this context. But you know, sometimes I can look pretty, pretty mean and scary. And so but that that part of Have a being approachable that is that something that can be taught or learned or because you seem to have transcended that into a fact that even though you're a beautiful woman, I think I could probably still feel confident that I could have a conversation with you. But that doesn't, you know, that's not me, doesn't come naturally or it does. Is it something that can be learned is really the question I'm asking. Um,


Jen Nash  45:24  

I think the mindset can be learned. And I think it's the same for like, people who are shy and don't want to go out to events, but they know they should. You know, I actually talk about the the faking it till you make it. I hear people who hate that approach. Yeah, I personally think it works. Some of the most amazing artists suffer tremendously from imposter syndrome. They think they're crap. They have, they think they have no value. And I talked about this. So for instance, David Bowie. One of the reasons he recorded so prolifically was because he felt so deeply insecure about his craft and his abilities, that the only time he felt sort of net net zero was when he was producing. Late Lady Gaga, literally thinks that she's crap every time she puts out a song, and she just has to, like keep telling herself, she's she's, she's got this like Sheryl Sandberg, who, you know, used to run Facebook, and got into not only got into Harvard, but was Phi Beta Kappa, like the premium of Harvard, she constantly wondered what she was doing there. And she thought that someone was going to expose her and kick her out. So like, we have these society lotted minds, and they suffer from tremendous insecurities. So at the end of the day, I think what I often say to people who are struggling with insecurity is focus on the work. Are you showing up? Are you going out? Are you just calling it sitting on the couch and giving up? Like, show up, take the steps, do your best, keep breathing, find deep breathing. So helpful. Because we get, you know, we get amped and we lean into that, and we let that little voice go crazy, right? But, you know, when when we take the steps we know we should take? At least we're we're doing our best, right? And then we can lean into that. So can it be taught? I think to some extent, absolutely. Like there are like, even in sports, there are people who are just naturally great. And then there are people who put 10,000 hours in before they were 15. Like you hear about these stories, and they willed themselves to be great. You know, my brother could beat me at squash with his left hand when he was 12. I will never be that sports person never. I wrote every point,


matt nappo  47:54  

I get it. So it is a skill that can be practiced and improve. But in terms of making connections now, I'm sure cuz it sounds sounds like you're, you're accepting of everybody. And I know that can't be the case, that there have to be some people that you just find annoying, and they want to connect with you. And they might have some value in your life and can teach you something and can lead to another connection, but they're just so friggin annoying that you don't want to have anything to do with them. You sound like you probably never met any of.


Jen Nash  48:31  

That's okay. And it's funny. I actually have a chapter on how to extra extricate yourself gracefully from conversations you don't want to be and there are absolutely times where you start a conversation with a person on a plane in 10 minutes. And you're like, oh, no, are our political ideals do not line up? This person is giving me great zde I don't I don't even want to hear this for the next three hours. So I literally spell out things you can say that or I actually interviewed a Hollywood producer, who's pretty darn powerful. And I said, How do you do it? How do you gracefully extricate yourself because she would be blacklisted if she was rude. And so it's actually very important how she does things. So for instance, on the plane, or the bus or the train, when you are literally trapped with someone or maybe in a really long car ride where you're carpooling. You just say, I have to get this done for my boss, for my client for whatever, I just have to finish reading this, you know, and you you can be reading on your phone, right? You could be reading a magazine, and it's an article that you have to comment for, like whatever. But I think I think absolutely there. There. There needs to be boundaries, like at the end of the day, you are not just a battery to fulfill everyone else's wishes. Right.


matt nappo  49:45  

Right. But the challenge, I think, and I appreciate that chapter on how to get yourself out of those conversations. Are you are you saying that we should discount those connections because even though we might find ourselves wanting to get out of that conversation and not think that we are necessarily have anything in common with this person for direct one on one conversation that might be some use for that connection for both of our lives something positive to be gained in that. And so how do you? How do you maintain that connection with even? In a


Jen Nash  50:23  

great way? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think if you were curious, like, say, it's someone that you know, is well connected, but you don't want to put too much time in, right? Um, yeah, I got, are you gonna have? Are you gonna have a coffee? Because if you're gonna throw an hour at it, the rest of it is easy. Say you have an hour long coffee. You don't love them? They're okay. But you know, what happens if you reach out three months later? And you say, Hey, I know you were talking about this really gorgeous place in Florida, Anna Maria Island, I ended up going there and you like, share a story. Thank you so much for the recommendation. That's it. So you, you you've touched base, right? They might respond? Oh, I'm so glad you loved it. That's awesome. Um, and they might ask you a question. And then, you know, maybe there's just a little bit of exchange, and then a year and a half later, you happen to be going through LinkedIn, you realize that they know someone at Viacom, they could introduce you, you need something. It's not hard to reach out and say, Hey, I see, you know, you know, Maureen, over at Viacom, how well do you know her? Oh, yeah, she and I worked together 15 years ago? Well, I'm doing this, can you introduce me? Like, why wouldn't they? Right. And you know, that wasn't a huge amount of work on your part. You've seen them once? Yeah, you know,


matt nappo  51:46  

yeah, some of the biggest, most rewarding financially, things that have come out of my podcast, and the live streams I do was, especially in the beginning, for more than the sponsorships in any of the other stuff that pays the bills, was this ability to make connections between my guests and, or people who I knew in life. So I had a guy, just as an example, I had a guy who was a franchise, he a franchise expert, and hooked people up with different franchises. That was his, that's his role in life. He's a franchise agent. And I had several people that were starting new businesses that they wanted to, or had started businesses and wanted to expand them. And I put them together and got consultant fees from both people for for arranging a meeting, really. And so that was a lucrative thing. But there were people in those, both of those people I couldn't find, talking to an irregular compensation for more than an hour. And I was reluctant to even have that conversation. But again, to your point, showing up and making yourself just follow up and have that conversation thing, you know, Sally's gonna keep you on the phone for an hour, which could be a really two minute conversation in a productive world, you're gonna have to sit on the phone with this guy for an hour. But in the end, it will be worth it for both of you. So it's, you know, doing what needs to be done. Even Yeah, and


Jen Nash  53:13  

I, I mean, there are ways of making these types of conversations that you're really sort of hesitant to have productive for you physically and personally. So at the end of the book, I have a whole section called Let's get practical. And it's how do you connect without leaving the house? You know, how do you connect a disconnected office? Right? So we're in this hybrid world, where new people are getting hired all the time, and they're missing out on the connection, they would have gotten sitting around a meeting, having lunch, maybe grabbing drinks after work? Like, how do you connect that kind of realm? And one of the ideas that I actually got from PwC, formerly PricewaterhouseCoopers, is they actually set up employee walks. So different people on different teams are scheduled to go out and walk and talk? Well, I love this idea. Yeah, yeah. So what I have started to do with just about everything, is, how do I make this a moving connection? I schedule walking talks, I'm like, Hey, why don't we both get on the phone and walk? And, you know, I do I have, I have a Kochi that actually goes out and walks while we talk about where their life is going. Because that makes them feel really good. And they're very, very busy. So they give themselves physically and then they give to themselves mentally and spiritually. So, I mean, why can't Why does it have to be the way it used to be? You know,


matt nappo  54:45  

no, I just feel as you're talking, my mind is going back to the most some of the deepest and most rewarding conversations I've ever had in my life. were experienced while we were walking Maybe there's something about that setting where I don't know it helps facilitate honesty and deeper and more meaningful conversations, even just the act of being in motion while rather than just sitting there and looking face to face as as stationary objects, just to be kind of traveling together. Just the idea of that kind of might, might be might foster better communication. I never thought of it that way until this moment. But as he was talking, I mean, my mind was going to sell so many of the best moments of my life happened during conversations while we were walking, you might be onto something very big.


Jen Nash  55:45  

Wow. Like, at the end of the day, i My heart goes out to so many of my former co workers and bosses because I feel that COVID has turned us into little trap zoom, team, you know, Slack monkeys, you know, insert all the technology that's keeping us attached to some kind of a screen. And the nice thing about getting out and walking is you could be you could be in South Carolina, and your teammate could be in Illinois, you know, and you both just open your front doors and take that 20 minutes.


matt nappo  56:20  

Right. You know, yesterday, I was supposed to have a guest on who was a no show we were rescheduled from last week was a no so she's not gonna get it. Thank


Jen Nash  56:31  

you. I think I think we should send her my book because she's well,


matt nappo  56:35  

I plan on it because her book is life on pause about how great this timeout COVID was for society. And how about lack of connection was a good thing for us because it gives us time to


Jen Nash  56:50  

look at called Life on pause, and she did to no shows I love it. Maybe she's trying to promote her book. Maybe she's a genius. This may be genius. Talk about her.


matt nappo  57:00  

Yeah, yeah, so let's not but though, I do want to send her your book when he when it's out, by the way, the book will be out in January. So for people who are interested in we will stay tuned here, we will let you know more about it as it gets closer to the release date. And I appreciate you being here and talking about it in advance. Generally, when you're doing podcasting interviews, they are scheduled for advance release, I basically publish them the next morning. So I could wait on you. But I don't think that's necessary, I hope you'll come back when the book is out. And we can have a little refresher and catch up on it.


Jen Nash  57:35  

I would love that. And if anybody is interested, it's going to be available in bookstores and Amazon and in all formats. And


matt nappo  57:42  

there'll be a link from John nash.com. Yeah, so. But speaking of COVID, I just want to get your perspective on this before I let you go for today. Um, are you a visionary for the future? And understanding, you know, how, how long term this might affect all the kinds of things that you're talking about in the book? And, you know, will it need to be revised five years from now, because of the way life is changing for all of us? And of course, we haven't, we don't know what's to come. But in some respects, you do have to be a little bit of a visionary and kind of be proactive and see what's coming down the road. What do you think about how this is going to impact us whether from the business perspective or personal perspective?


Jen Nash  58:30  

Um, I think we, I think, in some respects, it's fantastic. Because it's liberated talent. Now talent can live where talent is happy. Right? So the extremely talented developer or on air personality, might be able to live just about anywhere that they can get access to the internet and or, you know, studio, etc, right. So all of a sudden, our individual lives are empowered and supported in a completely different way. And I think it's harder, because we are missing that at work connection. You know, and there were things about the commute that supported people time to read time just for yourself. You couldn't feel guilty sitting on a train with you know, 1000 people, right, you it was just something you did. But at the same time. I think that companies are struggling because they want people to come back, you know, and it's it that line is moving. Apple was saying February, but here we have a new variant coming out that we're starting to see change immigration laws in Europe today. So I shouldn't say immigration, I shouldn't say travel. I apologize.


matt nappo  59:51  

The immigration stuff too, as well as travel restrictions. But yeah, your point is well taken.


Jen Nash  59:56  

And so I think it's interesting because it's going to affect everything from commercial real estate, it's affecting restaurants, it's, uh, it's really boosting food delivery. You know, there are, you know, look at Amazon stock, anything that's delivered is like, fantastic. It's changing home values dramatically, you know, nationwide. And do I think it's going to last forever? Yeah, I do. Because I don't think we can go back. We cannot go back. And I think once the talent has had a taste, and once the companies have seen that comes that the people are as productive. Like, I just read us a great, very detailed review by Gartner Group, which is an incredibly well respected research house. And they talked about how top performers are exceeding expectations when all these companies thought that being off site was going to reduce performance. And they, there's some interesting things happen around happening in a very negative way around male and female, and a lot of moms had to stay home, but they're still performing. They're still doing great jobs. So I actually think that for, you know, the feminist cause of equality of pay, we might see a step backwards. Yes. And that's actually what Gartner Group predicted that, unfortunately, all the people at work, they're going to be primarily men, and they're going to get the pay raises, because they actually went into the office, but the mom who's working her butt off and is still being as productive according to data. She's not she's not showing face.


matt nappo  1:01:41  

So that was the very negative effect of this thing, because you know, me, but


Jen Nash  1:01:48  

so it's an interesting bias, right? There's stuff out there like and the good news is, if we can talk about it, not if we can talk about it, we're one step closer to being able to like, acknowledge and shift.


matt nappo  1:02:00  

Yeah, you know, what, I think maybe this might be a conversation for the next time. But I think we're in a point where, and I've said this often in the last couple of weeks, too, is that belief is immune to logic. And so you can explain that that situation to people in ways that make sense. But if their belief in their attention, please, and I don't want to get into the politics of it. But there are certain people who just believe that, you know, don't believe that women have not been treated fairly with respect to compensation and all that stuff, and just can't get it through their heads. And so all that belief, no matter what batter you show them, no matter how you have that conversation, it just doesn't penetrate that wall of belief.


Jen Nash  1:02:49  

Yeah, and I mean, you know, what, here's the thing, we still only make 80 cents on the dollar and not, that's Asian women, white women make 79 cents on the dollar. And you know, what? We're, we're having the conversation and stuff is shifting companies are more aware. And I really do think that the communication, the vulnerability and the curiosity, without that, we're just going back to Silent days, silent days are definitely not where we want to go. So having awkward conversations is better than not, in my opinion.


matt nappo  1:03:23  

I agree. I definitely agree. Well, I appreciate you being here. Please just sit around for a minute why say goodbye to the audience. We'll be in the back. But just before we go again and Jen Nash calm. Now, you offered a free consultation to me, is that to me, or is that to the public?


Jen Nash  1:03:43  

I have. I have fairly specific Kochi guidelines, but they absolutely they can reach out and shoot me an email. I'm John at John nash.com. And we can go from there.


matt nappo  1:03:57  

Okay, I will definitely be taking you up on that. And I thank you for for coming today and sharing your insights and information with my audience. And I hope we can have you back when the book is out. I believe we're looking at January 1 as a release date. Right? We are absolutely cool. So until we meet again, please be well and thank you for coming in. Bye for now. All right. John Nash, folks, I hope you appreciate this questions and comments for me info at mind dog tv.com. info at mind book tv.com love to hear from you and hopefully be able to provide you with whatever answers questions you have. I don't have a show at 8pm tonight, because we'll be doing some video music video recording here. Just released a new one this morning called nightmares. And over the weekend, I released a song called till I walk with you again. It's a tribute to my son. Hope you check both of those out there on my YouTube channel. And so till tomorrow at the same at 1pm. Tomorrow, Matt nappo For the mind dog TV podcast. Thanks for coming Have a great rest of your day and bye for now


Transcribed by https://otter.ai